RE : (Newbie Hello! / ZX Advice Please?)

General Chit Chat about Sinclair Computers and their Clones
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RetroTechie
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Re: RE : (Newbie Hello! / ZX Advice Please?)

Post by RetroTechie »

I have bought some on-their-way out / less common models RPi (A, B and A+) a few weeks ago. Half-half as collectors item, but also to have fun with. Purchased a nice case, a 7-port powered USB hub, and a fast 16 GB uSD card to go with it. Didn't have much trouble getting Raspbian (= derived from Debian Linux) to run on it. Operating that (software-wise) feels basically the same as on my quad-core AMD based mini-ITX PC, which runs Debian Linux.

For the time being, using the model A on purpose because it is the most resource-constrained RPi. Performance-wise, it feels like a sluggish P2/P3 era machine trying to cope with a Windows XP install that has everything and the kitchen sink installed. :P Yes it runs a modern web browser, and surely it would run a full office suite too (LibreOffice in this case, not any of Microsoft's office suites). As soon as you drop back to the commandline though, there's no performance issues to complain about. 512 MB RAM (model B and B+) provides more headroom, the newer RPi 2 comes with 1 GB RAM and a much, much more powerful CPU part so that would surely work.

But if that kind of thing is the intended use, then (imho) you're using the RPi wrong. For those things you'd be better served with say, one of Intel's NUC (Next Unit of Computing), a cheap mini-ITX size PC, a Mac Mini, or something like that.

Better regard the RPi as a mobile-phone-hardware in a box / modern-tech Acorn BBC / microcontroller on steroids. With up-to-date (but not necessarily that powerful!) video hardware, and (most important!) a set of general purpose I/O pins, to attach DIY electronics to.

The biggest advantage that I see here, is a) that's its cheap, b) that it's small, c) that it's cheap, ;) :mrgreen: and d) that it's very easy to swap operating systems on, each of which can run "on the bare metal". Including exotic ones like Risc OS, Plan9, Inferno, or whatever gets ported to the RPi @ some point. Oh and and e) let's not forget the tinker-oriented community around it!
RWAP wrote:The new RPi (2015) will apparently have Windows 10 at some point :)
Indeed, that is what's announced by Microsoft. So not yet materialized (and no 100% guarantee it will, either). Note that's limited to the RPi 2. Also there's talk of Sailfish OS on the RPi 2 (another Linux based mobile OS). 8-)
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Re: RE : (Newbie Hello! / ZX Advice Please?)

Post by RWAP »

No idea unfortunately - I only use Linux on my servers so have never looked into Linux wordprocessors.

You would need to find a Linux wordprocessor which is supplied with sources and try compiling it on the RPi - you generally have to do this for most applications on any Linux distribution and then cross your fingers... (unless someone has pre-compiled it and tested it already)
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Re: RE : (Newbie Hello! / ZX Advice Please?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks »

Thanks a lot RetroTechie,
RetroTechie wrote:For the time being, using the model A on purpose because it is the most resource-constrained RPi. Performance-wise, it feels like a sluggish P2/P3 era machine trying to cope with a Windows XP install that has everything and the kitchen sink installed. :P Yes it runs a modern web browser, and surely it would run a full office suite too (LibreOffice in this case, not any of Microsoft's office suites). As soon as you drop back to the commandline though, there's no performance issues to complain about. 512 MB RAM (model B and B+) provides more headroom, the newer RPi 2 comes with 1 GB RAM and a much, much more powerful CPU part so that would surely work.

But if that kind of thing is the intended use, then (imho) you're using the RPi wrong. For those things you'd be better served with say, one of Intel's NUC (Next Unit of Computing), a cheap mini-ITX size PC, a Mac Mini, or something like that.

Better regard the RPi as a mobile-phone-hardware in a box / modern-tech Acorn BBC / microcontroller on steroids. With up-to-date (but not necessarily that powerful!) video hardware, and (most important!) a set of general purpose I/O pins, to attach DIY electronics to.

The biggest advantage that I see here, is a) that's its cheap, b) that it's small, c) that it's cheap, ;) :mrgreen: and d) that it's very easy to swap operating systems on, each of which can run "on the bare metal". Including exotic ones like Risc OS, Plan9, Inferno, or whatever gets ported to the RPi @ some point. Oh and and e) let's not forget the tinker-oriented community around it!
Ok, so I am looking at purchasing the RPi B+ model. I am not purchasing an RPi for the purpose of installing/running MS OFFICE, but was rather just asking to see if the device could (and if there was any point in installing MS OFFICE) run MS OFFICE on it.

So, are you saying that you use LibreOffice with your RPi please? And does this come included or is it an additional purchase?

Thanks very much,

Paul
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Re: RE : (Newbie Hello! / ZX Advice Please?)

Post by RWAP »

LibreOffice is free to download - see:

http://store.raspberrypi.com/projects/libreoffice

Not clear if it runs on a A model...
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Re: RE : (Newbie Hello! / ZX Advice Please?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks »

Rawp,
RWAP wrote:LibreOffice is free to download - Not clear if it runs on a A model...
That's great.

Cheers,

Paul
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Re: RE : (Newbie Hello! / ZX Advice Please?)

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RWAP wrote:You would need to find a Linux wordprocessor which is supplied with sources and try compiling it on the RPi - you generally have to do this for most applications on any Linux distribution and then cross your fingers...
ARE YOU KIDDING ME..!! We're not in the 90's anymore. :lol:

Linux based OS'es come in the form of a distribution. Of which there are MANY. Each distribution consists of a set of packages, which are pre-compiled bits of software (libraries, applications, data sets used by those, etc). The bugfixing, patching, compiling & testing is done by package maintainers, which are mostly developer-type advanced users, or even (in many cases these days!) paid professionals. Distributions differ in the set of packages included by default, which / how many (pre-compiled, binary) packages are available as add-on, default configuration, installation methods, etc.
(unless someone has pre-compiled it and tested it already)
For end-users, that is the common case. :P For the RPi, the 'officially supported' distro is called Raspbian. You download a ~1GB .zip, unzip it, write the resulting ~3GB to an SD card, and boot the RPi with it. From there on, you have a text-based menu where you make some inital settings (keyboard layout, whether to boot into commandline or GUI by default, etc), reboot, and you're good to go.
In my case the only complication was my cheap-ass TV. Over HDMI it reports as preferring full HD (1920 x 1080), and supporting a whole slew of other resolutions. Except the screen's native one (1366 x 768). :evil: So that took a bit of Googling, and edit a config file to force optimal screen resolution. Another bit of editing some config files, and internet connection using my Wi-Fi dongle was in the air. :)

Raspbian derives from Debian - ARM architecture, which is a reasonably well supported Debian port. A large part of all packages available for Debian have been re-compiled for use in Raspbian. Meaning: almost any software you'd consider running, is available as a ready-made binary package, and "compile from source" is only needed if you're doing something unusual, or try to make some very un-common piece of software run on the RPi.

On my PC, I use a GUI program called Synaptic, type a keyword in a search box, and get a list of available packages. Read the descriptions, check some screenshots or do some Googling, make some clicks "install these", 1-2 minute wait, done. Selected programs and any other bits they need to run ("dependencies") are sorted out, downloaded & installed in that one action, when finished they're ready to run. Outside the GUI there's a program called "apt-get" that does a similar job. On rare occasions you hit a snag - that's where Google and/or some commandline-fu may come in.

Using Raspbian, the procedure is pretty much the same. With other distributions, you may have different tools for the job, and a smaller selection of pre-built software.
monsterjazzlicks wrote:So, are you saying that you use LibreOffice with your RPi please? And does this come included or is it an additional purchase?
Didn't install that yet, but it is available as pre-built package. Screenshots here. Oh RWAP beat me to it. :mrgreen: LibreOffice is Free/Libre Open Source Software ("FLOSS"). Among other things that means free as in no need to pay. 8-)

Probably more suitable on the RPi are lighter-weight, specialized applications like Abiword (word processor, also handles .rtf and not-too-complex .doc files), Gnumeric (a simple spreadsheet program), etc.
and if there was any point in installing MS OFFICE
So make that LibreOffice... But well, yes: that if you have your RPi running (and not your PC/laptop/whatever), and it's internet-connected, and you happen to come across a .doc file, you could download & open it directly on your RPi. Same thing for .doc files you may have on an USB stick etc. Probably a rare event though... :lol:

An office suite like LibreOffice will probably excercise a Model A to it's limits - pretty sure it will run (swapfiles & such), question is how sluggish. ;)

Btw. if buying I'd go for the RPi 2 (as opposed to older models like the B+), to keep those Windows 10 / Android / Sailfish OS options open. Small difference in price, very big difference in RAM & raw CPU power.
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Re: RE : (Newbie Hello! / ZX Advice Please?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks »

Thank you Retro Techie,
RetroTechie wrote:
monsterjazzlicks wrote:and if there was any point in installing MS OFFICE
So make that LibreOffice... But well, yes: that if you have your RPi running (and not your PC/laptop/whatever), and it's internet-connected, and you happen to come across a .doc file, you could download & open it directly on your RPi. Same thing for .doc files you may have on an USB stick etc. Probably a rare event though... :lol:

Btw. if buying I'd go for the RPi 2 (as opposed to older models like the B+), to keep those Windows 10 / Android / Sailfish OS options open. Small difference in price, very big difference in RAM & raw CPU power.
Yes, you are correct. I meant the '2' model as SirMorris advised earlier in this thread:
sirmorris wrote:There's a new one just been released which doubles the processor power and memory, for the same cost as the old one. [Raspberry Pi 2 Model B]
RetroTechie wrote:
monsterjazzlicks wrote:So, are you saying that you use LibreOffice with your RPi please? And does this come included or is it an additional purchase?
Didn't install that yet, but it is available as pre-built package. Screenshots here. Oh RWAP beat me to it. :mrgreen: LibreOffice is Free/Libre Open Source Software ("FLOSS"). Among other things that means free as in no need to pay. 8-)
Ok, great, I got the LibreOffice link now!

Best,

Paul
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Re: RE : (Newbie Hello! / ZX Advice Please?)

Post by RetroTechie »

RWAP wrote:LibreOffice is free to download - see:

http://store.raspberrypi.com/projects/libreoffice

Not clear if it runs on a A model...
I just tried - it runs fine. "sudo apt-get install libreoffice" was all that's needed. First startup takes about 30-35 seconds, a simple .doc file loads & displays in a few seconds.

With LibreOffice + a small .doc + Epiphany (a WebKit based browser) + a few tabs open, about 2/3 of the Model A's 256 MB RAM is taken and I have to start watching what else I fire up. :lol: That browser seems 'heavier' than LibreOffice, btw. It's mostly that things take long to load (I suspect the Raspberry Pi <-> SD card interface speed is to blame there). But it definitely works.

Graphical package tool (Synaptic) also works, is very easy to use, but rather heavyweight. Commandline tools "apt-get" or "aptitude" are better choices. Synaptic and aptitude both list some ~37000 packages, :o of course a big % of that is libraries, 20 different programs for the same task, dummy/documentation packages, etc. But obviously you wouldn't run out of things to try... :D
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Re: RE : (Newbie Hello! / ZX Advice Please?)

Post by RetroTechie »

Btw: above comment -and this one- posted from the Raspberry Pi Model A. 8-) Next up: playing videos, & I wanna see some 3D stuff. ;)
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Re: RE : (Newbie Hello! / ZX Advice Please?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks »

Hi,
RetroTechie wrote: If your interest is embedded systems, low-level hardware projects etc, then C programming + an Arduino may be the way to go. If writing apps / games for mobile phone is your target, have a look at their various Software Development Kits and/or languages used, and a phone or tablet that you can root, so you can slap any OS on it that runs on that hardware.
My local PC shop gave me a copy of C++ FOR DUMMIES (plus CD ROM) today for being a good customer! They had a spare copy in excellent condition. Will it work ok on my (old/spare) Win-XP PC please?

Paul
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